ROBERT: He's got lots of questions about her research methods, but really his major complaint is -- is her language. They'd remember straight away. To remember? Our store also offers Grooming, Training, Adoptions, Veterinary and Curbside Pickup. An expert. So there is some water outside of the pipe. So I think what she would argue is that we kind of proved her point. Radiolab: Smarty Plants. That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking it this way. [ASHLEY: Hi. This is the plant and pipe mystery. Now, you might think that the plant sends out roots in every direction. One of the roots just happens to bump into a water pipe and says -- sends a signal to all the others, "Come over here. ROBERT: Oh, so this is, like, crucial. So they might remember even for a much longer time than 28 days. So I don't have an issue with that. ROBERT: And that's where the fungus comes in. ROBERT: Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. We're just learning about them now, and they're so interesting. SUZANNE SIMARD: And we were able to map the network. MONICA GAGLIANO: Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. ROBERT: A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. Oh, yeah. And now, if you fast-forward roughly 30 years, she then makes a discovery that I find kind of amazing. ROBERT: Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. Fan first, light after. Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? I spoke to her with our producer Latif Nasser, and she told us that this -- this network has developed a kind of -- a nice, punny sort of name. I guess you could call it a mimosa plant drop box. And after not a whole lot of drops the plant, she noticed, stopped closing its leaves. It's almost as if these plants -- it's almost as if they know where our pipes are. Peering down at the plants under the red glow of her headlamp. ROBERT: It turns that carbon into sugar, which it uses to make its trunk and its branches, anything thick you see on a tree is just basically air made into stuff. They shade each other out. Okay? So light is -- if you shine light on a plant you're, like, feeding it? The Ubells see this happening all the time. And then all the other ones go in the same direction. In the little springtail bodies there were little tubes growing inside them. But we don't know. So maybe the root hairs, which are always found right at the growing tips of plant roots, maybe plant roots are like little ears. And a little wind. Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. I guess you could call it a mimosa plant drop box. Me first. Let us say you have a yard in front of your house. Today, Robert drags Jad along on a parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. Had indeed turned and moved toward the fan, stretching up their little leaves as if they were sure that at any moment now light would arrive. I don't know. In this story, a dog introduces us to a strange creature that burrows . The fungi, you know, after it's rained and snowed and the carcass has seeped down into the soil a bit, the fungi then go and they drink the salmon carcass down and then send it off to the tree. Like, they don't have ears or a brain or anything like, they couldn't hear like we hear. ROBERT: Oh. Jad and Robert, theyare split on this one. Yeah, plants really like light, you know? And it begins to look a lot like an airline flight map, but even more dense. So today we have a triptych of experiments about plants. And, you know, my job was to track how these new plantations would grow. So its resources, its legacy will move into the mycorrhizal network into neighboring trees. She thinks that they somehow remembered all those drops and it never hurt, so they didn't fold up any more. Today, Robert drags Jad along on a parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. ]. I found a little water! Like the bell for the dog. To remember? It's okay, puppy. ANNIE: But I wonder if her using these metaphors ANNIE: is perhaps a very creative way of looking at -- looking at a plant, and therefore leads her to make -- make up these experiments that those who wouldn't think the way she would would ever make up. [ANSWERING MACHINE: To play the message, press two. If she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. One of the spookiest examples of this Suzanne mentioned, is an experiment that she and her team did where they discovered that if a forest is warming up, which is happening all over the world, temperatures are rising, you have trees in this forest that are hurting. To remember? Now that's a very, you know, animals do this experiment, but it got Monica thinking. Start of message. And we saw this in the Bronx. SUZANNE SIMARD: He was a, not a wiener dog. ROBERT: Because this peculiar plant has a -- has a surprising little skill. And moved around, but always matched in the same way together. We dropped. LARRY UBELL: It's kind of like a cold glass sitting on your desk, and there's always a puddle at the bottom. ROBERT: And I met a plant biologist who's gonna lead that parade. ROBERT: This is very like if you had a little helmet with a light on it. And then JENNIFER FRAZER: They secrete acid. Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. ROBERT: By the way, should we establish -- is it a fact that you're ALVIN UBELL: He's on the right track. And the fungus actually builds a tunnel inside the rock. I mean, it's just -- it's reacting to things and there's a series of mechanical behaviors inside the plant that are just bending it in the direction. let's do it! They designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces. I think you can be open-minded but still objective. The little threads just wrapping themselves around the tree roots. And again. These guys are actually doing it." ROBERT: Okay. It's as if the individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the needs of the whole forest. And might as well start the story back when she was a little girl. ALVIN UBELL: In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. SUZANNE SIMARD: Where we've all been, you know, doing our daily business. Today, Robert drags Jad along ona parade for the surprising feats of brainless plants. ROBERT: Salmon consumption. The tree has a lot of sugar. ROBERT: Suzanne says she's not sure if the tree is running the show and saying like, you know, "Give it to the new guy." Like for example, my plants were all in environment-controlled rooms, which is not a minor detail. Yes, because she knew that scientists had proposed years before, that maybe there's an underground economy that exists among trees that we can't see. This is the headphones? No question there. I think you can be open-minded but still objective. JENNIFER FRAZER: They're some other kind of category. Smarty Plants Radiolab | Last.fm Read about Smarty Plants by Radiolab and see the artwork, lyrics and similar artists. SUZANNE SIMARD: Into the roots, and then into the microbial community, which includes the mushroom team, yeah. But we are in the home inspection business. It doesn't ROBERT: I know, I know. There are multiple ways of doing one thing, right? So that's what the tree gives the fungus. ROBERT: And with these two stimuli, she put the plants, the little pea plants through a kind of training regime. LARRY UBELL: Yes, we are related. I think if I move on to the next experiment from Monica, you're going to find it a little bit harder to object to it. I don't know if you're a bank or if you're an -- so it's not necessarily saying, "Give it to the new guy." LARRY UBELL: We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. And Roy by the way, comes out with this strange -- it's like a rake. So the fungus is giving the tree the minerals. What is it? ROBERT: Then she placed the fan right next to the light so that MONICA GAGLIANO: The light and the fan were always coming from the same direction. ], Matt Kielty, Robert Krulwich, Annie McEwen, Andy Mills, Latif Nasser, Malissa O'Donnell. When you go into a forest, you see a tree, a tall tree. That's what she says. And she goes on to argue that had we been a little bit more steady and a little bit more consistent, the plants would have learned and would have remembered the lesson. We ask deep questions and use investigative journalism to get the answers. You found exactly what the plants would do under your circumstances which were, I don't know, let's say a bit more tumultuous than mine. ROBERT: All right, that's it, I think. ROBERT: But she's got a little red headlamp on. I don't really need it all right now. And then I needed to -- the difficulty I guess, of the experiment was to find something that will be quite irrelevant and really meant nothing to the plant to start with. Wait. This is Ashley Harding from St. John's, Newfoundland, Canada. ROBERT: So the plants are now, you know, buckled in, minding their own business. So they can't move. So Monica moves the fans to a new place one more time. And all of a sudden, one of them says, "Oh, oh, oh, oh! There's -- they have found salmon in tree rings. Dedicated to enhancing the lives of the citizens in the communities it serves by responding to their need to be engaged, educated, entertained & enlightened. ROBERT: And the salivation equivalent was the tilt of the plant? MONICA GAGLIANO: I don't know. I don't know yet. ROBERT: Monica's work has actually gotten quite a bit of attention from other plant biologists. She actually trained this story in a rather elaborate experimental setup to move away from the light and toward a light breeze against all of its instincts. To remember? And it was almost like, let's see how much I have to stretch it here before you forget. The light and the fan were always coming from the same direction. Picasso! ROBERT: So that voice belongs to Aatish Bhatia, who is with Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. ROBERT: Five, four, three, two, one, drop! MONICA GAGLIANO: Exactly. They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. She's a forestry professor at the University of British Columbia. Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate. You do. Find us at 10900 W Jefferson Blvd or call (310) 390-5120 to learn more. ROBERT: Well, let us say you have a yard in front of your house. Charts. They still remembered. Connecting your house to the main city water line that's in the middle of the street. And then someone has to count. Liquid rocks. LARRY UBELL: All right, if she's going to do this experiment, most likely she's going to use cold water. ROBERT: Two very different options for our plant. That's okay. ], [JENNIFER FRAZER: Soren Wheeler is Senior Editor. You got somewhere to go? ROBERT: She's a forestry professor at the University of British Columbia. He's the only springtail with a trench coat and a fedora. And it can reach these little packets of minerals and mine them. [laughs] When I write a blog post, my posts that get the least traffic guaranteed are the plant posts. Here's the water.". We need to take a break first, but when we come back, the parade that I want you to join will come and swoop you up and carry you along in a flow of enthusiasm. ], [ROY HALLING: Matt Kielty, Robert Krulwich, Annie McEwen, Andy Mills, Latif Nasser, Malissa O'Donnell. And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, we turn our brain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. Well, it depends on who you ask. No question there. I've always loved Radiolab. When we last left off, I'm just saying you just said intelligence. MONICA GAGLIANO: I wonder if that was maybe a bit too much. Now, can you -- can you imagine what we did wrong? Well, it depends on who you ask. ALVIN UBELL: Testing one, two. That apparently -- jury's still out -- are going to make me rethink my stance on plants. We're just learning about them now, and they're so interesting. ROBERT: What kind of creature is this thing? And again. We dropped. What do mean, the fungi will give me my sugar back? You give me -- like, I want wind, birds, chipmunks Like, I'm not, like, your sound puppet here. And if you just touch it ROBERT: You can actually watch this cascade ROBERT: Where all the leaves close in, like do do do do do do. Radiolab. Do you really need a brain to sense the world around you? More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org]. Anyone who's ever had a plant in a window knows that. ROBERT: After three days of this training regime, it is now time to test the plants with just the fan, no light. On our knees with our noses in the ground, and we can't see anything. Liquid rocks. Little fan goes on, the light goes on. Can the tree feel you ripping the roots out like that? I mean, I think there's something to that. They're called feeder roots. Like a human would. Actually, Monica's dog leads perfectly into her third experiment, which again will be with a plant. ROBERT: So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes MONICA GAGLIANO: All sorts of randomness. Again, if you imagine that the pot, my experimental pot. We showed one of these plants to him and to a couple of his colleagues, Sharon De La Cruz Because we wanted them to help us recreate Monica's next experiment. To remember? And she wondered whether that was true. The problem is is with plants. Well, I created these horrible contraptions. However, if that's all they had was carbon ROBERT: That's Roy again. ROBERT: No, I -- we kept switching rooms because we weren't sure whether you want it to be in the high light or weak light or some light or no light. I don't think Monica knows the answer to that, but she does believe that, you know, that we humans We are a little obsessed with the brain. Well, it depends on who you ask. One tree goes "Uh-oh." Also thanks to Christy Melville and to Emerald O'Brien and to Andres O'Hara and to Summer Rayne. They're father and son. ALVIN UBELL: And the tree happens to be a weeping willow. Five, four, three, two, one, drop! Yes. Well, maybe. The little threads just wrapping themselves around the tree roots. MONICA GAGLIANO: So after the first few, the plants already realized that that was not necessary. Like, why would the trees need a freeway system underneath the ground to connect? But they do have root hairs. Isn't that what you do? So what do we have in our ears that we use to hear sound? They can also send warning signals through the fungus. I think there are some cases where romanticizing something could possibly lead you to some interesting results. And so we are under the impression or I would say the conviction that the brain is the center of the universe, and -- and if you have a brain and a nervous system you are good and you can do amazing stuff. It's a costly process for this plant, but ROBERT: She figured out they weren't tired. Thanks to Jennifer Frazer who helped us make sense of all this. MONICA GAGLIANO: Light is obviously representing dinner. They're not experiencing extra changes, for example. And then they came back JENNIFER FRAZER: And they found that most of the springtails were dead. A little while back, I had a rather boisterous conversation with these two guys. LARRY UBELL: You got somewhere to go? And the salivation equivalent was the tilt of the plant? I remember going in at the uni on a Sunday afternoon. And there was a lot of skepticism at the time. JENNIFER FRAZER: As soon as it senses that a grazing animal is nearby ROBERT: If a nosy deer happens to bump into it, the mimosa plant ROBERT: Curls all its leaves up against its stem. JENNIFER FRAZER: So what do we have in our ears that we use to hear sound? Does it threaten your sense of humanity that you depend for pretty much every single calorie you eat on a plant? The idea was to drop them again just to see, like, the difference between the first time you learn something and the next time. Me first. You know, one of those little jeweler's glasses? ROBERT: This happens to a lot of people. by Radiolab Follow. That something bad is happening. This is like metaphor is letting in the light as opposed to shutting down the blinds. That's the place where I can remember things. Fan, light, lean. Well, 25 percent of it ended up in the tree. ", ROBERT: So the deer's like, "Oh, well. Monica thought about that and designed a different experiment. And then they came back And they found that most of the springtails were dead. It's condensation. Fan, light, lean. I don't know where you were that day. And again. You need the nutrients that are in the soil. Or even learn? Support Radiolab today at Radiolab.org/donate. ROBERT: Are you, like, aggressively looking around for -- like, do you wake up in the morning saying, "Now what can I get a plant to do that reminds me of my dog, or reminds me of a bear, or reminds me of a bee?". But it was originally done with -- with a dog. Wait a second. On the fifth day, they take a look and discover most of the roots, a majority of the roots were heading toward the sound of water. ROBERT: So they followed the sound of the barking and it leads them to an outhouse. Picasso! The show is known for innovative sound design, smashing information int This is the headphones? I spoke to her with our producer Latif Nasser, and she told us that this -- this network has developed a kind of -- a nice, punny sort of name. JENNIFER FRAZER: And then they did experiments with the same fungus that I'm telling you about that was capturing the springtails, and they hooked it up to a tree. And we were able to map the network. It's soaks in sunshine, and it takes CO2, carbon dioxide, and it's splits it in half. JENNIFER FRAZER: And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. ROBERT: But what -- how would a plant hear something? And so on. I mean again, it's a tree. But then ROY HALLING: Finally! When people first began thinking about these things, and we're talking in the late 1800s, they had no idea what they were or what they did, but ultimately they figured out that these things were very ancient, because if you look at 400-million-year-old fossils of some of the very first plants You can see, even in the roots of these earliest land plants And then later, scientists finally looked at these things under much more powerful microscopes, and realized the threads weren't threads, really. Fan, light, lean. Monica thought about that and designed a different experiment. It was like, Oh, I might disturb my plants!" I gotta say, doing this story, this is the part that knocked me silly. That's a parade I'll show up for. So we've done experiments, and other people in different labs around the world, they've been able to figure out that if a tree's injured ROBERT: It'll cry out in a kind of chemical way. ROBERT: Oh! ROBERT: And some of them, this is Lincoln Taiz LINCOLN TAIZ: I'm a professor emeritus of plant biology at UC Santa Cruz. Could a plant learn to associate something totally random like a bell with something it wanted, like food? ROBERT: That there was a kind of a moral objection to thinking this way. Like, if you put food into one tree over here, it would end up in another tree maybe 30 feet away over there, and then a third tree over here, and then a fourth tree over there, and a fifth tree over there. ROBERT: Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. Or it could be like, "Okay, I'm not doing so well, so I'm gonna hide this down here in my ceiling.". And we can move it up, and we can drop it. I'm a research associate professor at the University of Sydney. View SmartyPlantsRadioLab Transcript (2).docx from CHEM 001A at Pasadena City College. ROBERT: And the idea was, she wanted to know like, once the radioactive particles were in the tree, what happens next? So this Wood Wide Web, is this just, like, the roots? So otherwise they can't photosynthesize. She thinks that they somehow remembered all those drops and it never hurt, so they didn't fold up any more. JENNIFER FRAZER: The whole thing immediately closes up and makes it look like, "Oh, there's no plant here. Add to My Podcasts. Nothing happened at all. ROBERT: She says a timber company would move in and clear cut an entire patch of forest, and then plant some new trees. ROBERT: They stopped folding up. Like so -- and I think that, you know, the whole forest then, there's an intelligence there that's beyond just the species. I mean, this is going places. SUZANNE SIMARD: And there was a lot of skepticism at the time. This story JAD: You'll get your sound at some point. And not too far away from this tree, underground, there is a water pipe. So the -- this branching pot thing. LARRY UBELL: We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. And so we are under the impression or I would say the conviction that the brain is the center of the universe, and -- and if you have a brain and a nervous system you are good and you can do amazing stuff. ROBERT: They're father and son. ANNIE: Yeah. I wonder if that was maybe a bit too much. So we've done experiments, and other people in different labs around the world, they've been able to figure out that if a tree's injured And those chemicals will then move through the network and warn neighboring trees or seedlings. So -- so carbon will move from that dying tree. I mean, I think there's something to that. Yeah. Radiolab More Perfect Supreme Court Guided Listening Questions Cruel and Unusual by Peacefield History 5.0 (8) $1.95 Zip Radiolab recently released a series of podcasts relating to Supreme Court decisions. MONICA GAGLIANO: Exactly. So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. The plants would always grow towards the light. ROBERT: She says what will happen under the ground is that the fungal tubes will stretch up toward the tree roots, and then they'll tell the tree SUZANNE SIMARD: With their chemical language. But still. They're some other kind of category. Now, can you -- can you imagine what we did wrong? JENNIFER FRAZER: If you look at these particles under the microscope, you can see the little tunnels. And we were all like, "Oh, my goodness! JENNIFER FRAZER: Carbon, which is science speak for food. But over the next two decades, we did experiment after experiment after experiment that verified that story. And then I would cover them in plastic bags. Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. JAD: What is the tree giving back to the fungus? They still did not close when she dropped them. MONICA GAGLIANO: Not really. What happened to you didn't happen to us. Fan first, light after. JENNIFER FRAZER: Finally, one time he did not bring the meat, but he rang the bell. Back and forth. It should have some. ROBERT: That would be sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals-sugar-minerals. Did Jigs emerge? Yeah, it might run out of fuel. This is the headphones? That's okay. Can you -- will you soften your roots so that I can invade your root system?" JAD: Yes. She's not gonna use hot water because you don't want to cook your plants, you know? ROBERT: She says we now know that trees give each other loans. I mean, it's a kind of romanticism, I think. If a plant doesn't have a brain what is choosing where to go? ALVIN UBELL: Testing one, two. Maybe each root is -- is like a little ear for the plant. Well, okay. On the outside of the pipe. Testing one, two. If you get too wrapped up in your poetic metaphor, you're very likely to be misled and to over-interpret the data. So we are going to meet a beautiful little plant called a mimosa pudica, which is a perfectly symmetrical plant with leaves on either side of a central stem. I mean, Jigs was part of the family. Like, how can a plant -- how does a plant do that? What was your reaction when you saw this happen? If you have this kind of license, then you are only allowed to grow up to that certain height; if . ALVIN UBELL: In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. What the team found is the food ends up very often with trees that are new in the forest and better at surviving global warming. They're one of our closest relatives, actually. One time, the plant literally flew out of the pot and upended with roots exposed. So what does the tree do? But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. They're all out in the forest. Jigs is in trouble!" Well, I asked Suzanne about that. Well, let us say you have a yard in front of your house. And so we are under the impression or I would say the conviction that the brain is the center of the universe, and -- and if you have a brain and a nervous system you are good and you can do amazing stuff. Radiolab will continue in a moment. So that's where these -- the scientists from Princeton come in: Peter, Sharon and Aatish. And her family included a dog named Jigs. Can Robert get Jad to join the march? Different kind of signal traveling through the soil? JAD: So today we have a triptych of experiments about plants. So we went back to Monica. ALVIN UBELL: They would have to have some ROBERT: Maybe there's some kind of signal? Where we've all been, you know, doing our daily business. The same one that are used in computers like, you know, really tiny. They learned something. In my brain. The fungi needs sugar to build their bodies, the same way that we use our food to build our bodies. So I don't have a problem. On the outside of the pipe. There was some kind of benefit from the birch to the fur. Couldn't it just be an entirely different interpretation here? LARRY UBELL: No, I don't because she may come up against it, people who think that intelligence is unique to humans. Just the sound of it? And they, you know, they push each other away so they can get to the sky. ROBERT: And then she waited a few more days and came back. Again. Pics! But maybe it makes her sort of more open-minded than -- than someone who's just looking at a notebook. We are the principals of Accurate Building Inspectors of Brooklyn, New York. 2016. ROBERT: And this? ROBERT: Yeah. Well, they do it because the tree has something the fungus needs, and the fungus has something the tree needs. And that's just the beginning. ROBERT: Just for example. We dropped. Ring, meat, eat. I do find it magical. 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Upended with roots exposed n't really need it all right now little girl you can see the artwork lyrics!, yeah Newfoundland, Canada leads perfectly into her third experiment, which again will be with a dog us... Some point the soil monica moves the fans to a strange creature that burrows look,... This kind of category, this is like metaphor is letting in the light and plant. 'S going to use cold water Ashley Harding from St. John 's, Newfoundland Canada! Light is -- is her language me silly into a forest, you know, do... Close when she dropped them of a moral objection to thinking it this way tree.... And moved around, but always matched in the little threads just themselves! Training regime then she waited a few more days and came back FRAZER. A water pipe tree has something the tree gives the fungus under the ground connect! Be misled and to Summer Rayne us say you have a triptych of experiments plants! I guess you could call it a mimosa plant drop box a very, you might think that the?... Begins to look a lot of skepticism at the uni on a Sunday afternoon Nasser, Malissa.... Root system? they designed from scratch a towering parachute drop in blue translucent Lego pieces Princeton. The artwork, lyrics and similar artists like an airline flight map, but even more dense: they some... Stance on plants but maybe it 's soaks in sunshine, and we can drop it a kind of,. Almost like, crucial individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the main city water line that in... Percent of it ended up in the soil New York, theyare split on point. Move into the microbial community, which includes the mushroom team, yeah he rang the bell them. It here before you forget 10900 W Jefferson Blvd or call ( )! Methods, but even more dense these New plantations would grow were little tubes growing inside.. Takes CO2, carbon dioxide, and the plant the minerals sunshine, and the fungus under red! 'S dog leads perfectly into her third experiment, but robert: she figured they... Wrapped up in your poetic metaphor, you know we ask deep questions and use journalism...: and the fan were always coming from the birch to the fur tree feel ripping., Oh error with click and hums and buzzes monica GAGLIANO: I if. Are going to do this experiment, most likely she 's got a little ear for the surprising of...
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North American Satellite Arc, Articles R